What Vincent said about the US having tribal tensions versus the narrow caricature called "race" and "racism" is correct.
He is also correct that there is tribal tension between ADOS and non ADOS. I don't think it is over physical characteristics. I think it is over culture and ethnicity. This is why foreign people of African ancestry are treated better by non ADOS Americans.
"My theory is that “White Americans” as an ethnic group in the context of the US, have issues with “African Americans” as another ethnic group occupying the same space as them and the reverse is true as well."
I also think it is important to recognize that this extends to non ADOS in general (African immigrants, Asians, Latinos, people of caucasian ancestry) It is misleading to characterize it as a "white" vs. African American issue.
100% yes. This is why I think the USA has a type of "systematic racism," albeit not over physical characteristics and ancestry, but via culture and ethnicity. More accurately the USA has "systematic cultural ethnicity discrimination".
Would love for others to share their thoughts regarding this.
Could you give me some examples of this -> "systematic cultural ethnicity discrimination"? Cannot each (or all) cultures find cultural offense, distaste, dislike, rejection or favor other cultures aspects and traits? Cannot any culture favor its own culture (or aspects of it) and reject others? In another comment to one of your posts, I included the "White Culture Profile". Are Latino, Asian or black cultures required to find all those cultural traits acceptable? What would be the equivalent "Cultural Profile" of Asians, Latinos and Black Americans?
European heritage is "white". In the founding of the US, everything about it was for those in power at that time (white, by heritage). All culture, mores, institutions and traditions and legal system were inherited via Europe's (mostly English) influence. The innovation was the constitution and its separation of political powers (and the American Creed as declare in the Declaration of Independence. Imperfect and new. Thrust upon a divided people (states and state power) with great distrust. European influence (white, if one must and can simplify) was/is a "base-line" of culture and tradition. It's more than one of many in the world. It is the benchmark of how and why all things seem so "white".
Glad to have found your work. Unfortunately a new tribalism is being imposed in the US in which the smallest schoolchildren are being taught that ethnic/racial identity is a person’s most significant characteristic and it defines one’s role in society. It is inescapable. And dangerous.
You say if racism was stamped out tensions would remain. human relationships are multi-causal. We wouldn't know about them without race involved over here. The reality is that race is still a central problem in the US that has yet to be "stamped out"!
And the fact is that you have no true knowledge of what the US would be without racism. What you've written is speculative at best. Not that tribalism wouldn't occur, it your presenting it as the key to our racial relationships.
Your may be correct. Then again, you may be incorrect...what happens in the interim? It's like you're standing at the end of a long race to hand our water. For too many the water will have come, too late.
You are right and I agree. One comment you made that stuck out is "human relationships are multi-causal" if that is true, permit to ask, why is there a default to "racism" as the causal issue to such unpleasant racial interactions in the US? hardly any other cause is explored.
What you've described has not been my experience in the 78 years since I've been born in Albany, NY. Tribalism is the wrong label based on your description. That would mean that the Nigerian man killed by his white girlfriend was a tribal murder? Black Americans aren't fighting with whites for capitalisms meager spoils. If they are, they've never been winning much and still haven't. You've not put your finger on the depth of the black/white relationships in the US.
Thanks for reading and leaving a comment. I appreciate. There is a possibility that I'll get some details wrong, seeing as I'm not an American and speaking from an outside perspective.
My point really is, groups compete, their interests clash and those tensions are not unique to black vs white Americans and that, even in a racially homogenous society, different tribes would come in conflict with each other.
The experience in my country where everyone is phenotypically black and even in cases where these people are of the same ethnic extraction or tribe, just being of a different clan is enough reason for conflict to arise.
I guess the larger point I was trying to make is that, all the black-and-white tensions in America today may not be solely due to racism and that even if you stamp out racism today in America, many of those tensions would still remain, because humans are tribal in nature and tribes fight each other.
This article is practical and reflects much of my feelings.
In his insightful book "The Righteous Mind" Johnathan Haidt lays out the legitimate differences in degrees of innate values between the political left and political right in our nation. No race or ethnicity applies or need apply. But it all boils down to trust or distrust in each group's political and social intentions.
Values differences matter "big-time" but {IF} the political and economic intentions are more shared than not, different groups live cooperatively and meld together. There is too much success for this in our nation to deny it. I think Charles is saying by casting off the "race" term, we also cast off a past, outdated degree of thought and attitude that once existed.
There is no real "race" difference in the world - only culture and a few genes that reveal ancestral lineage - which means nothing. In time past, we all came from Africa. We just took different routes on our ancestral journey.
Having said that, , there is a political movement in the world and the nation to distort and divide the American people and discredit the American Creed using academia and the main-stream media. It is time to throw off that label and address any cultural, social, economic and political differences society bears in its reality. The truth is hard enough to address. We don't need false and useless ideas like race superiority. What are those truths?
Please leave a comment, tell me what I did or did not get right.
Throw in cultural affinity into the tribal idea and I think you have hit the nail on the head.
What Vincent said about the US having tribal tensions versus the narrow caricature called "race" and "racism" is correct.
He is also correct that there is tribal tension between ADOS and non ADOS. I don't think it is over physical characteristics. I think it is over culture and ethnicity. This is why foreign people of African ancestry are treated better by non ADOS Americans.
"My theory is that “White Americans” as an ethnic group in the context of the US, have issues with “African Americans” as another ethnic group occupying the same space as them and the reverse is true as well."
I also think it is important to recognize that this extends to non ADOS in general (African immigrants, Asians, Latinos, people of caucasian ancestry) It is misleading to characterize it as a "white" vs. African American issue.
[Disagree that "whiteness" exists.]
Thank you AnAn for your feedback. Is it possible that AA receive treatment that African migrants don't?
100% yes. This is why I think the USA has a type of "systematic racism," albeit not over physical characteristics and ancestry, but via culture and ethnicity. More accurately the USA has "systematic cultural ethnicity discrimination".
Would love for others to share their thoughts regarding this.
Thank you
Could you give me some examples of this -> "systematic cultural ethnicity discrimination"? Cannot each (or all) cultures find cultural offense, distaste, dislike, rejection or favor other cultures aspects and traits? Cannot any culture favor its own culture (or aspects of it) and reject others? In another comment to one of your posts, I included the "White Culture Profile". Are Latino, Asian or black cultures required to find all those cultural traits acceptable? What would be the equivalent "Cultural Profile" of Asians, Latinos and Black Americans?
European heritage is "white". In the founding of the US, everything about it was for those in power at that time (white, by heritage). All culture, mores, institutions and traditions and legal system were inherited via Europe's (mostly English) influence. The innovation was the constitution and its separation of political powers (and the American Creed as declare in the Declaration of Independence. Imperfect and new. Thrust upon a divided people (states and state power) with great distrust. European influence (white, if one must and can simplify) was/is a "base-line" of culture and tradition. It's more than one of many in the world. It is the benchmark of how and why all things seem so "white".
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/221875325_1756029804589853_7939959571034980863_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=a4a2d7&_nc_ohc=9PyxWQ2Y69gAX-V29KU&tn=lJevfZc7USL3Abvc&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=00_AT_jwY-2sqXQrhBDS9TNydhSwdeGlMqA5DltOeXbjvoZFw&oe=61D28474

Glad to have found your work. Unfortunately a new tribalism is being imposed in the US in which the smallest schoolchildren are being taught that ethnic/racial identity is a person’s most significant characteristic and it defines one’s role in society. It is inescapable. And dangerous.
I'm glad you found my work and thank you for reading. Americans should so all they can to mitigate the dangerous thread being taught in the schools
You say if racism was stamped out tensions would remain. human relationships are multi-causal. We wouldn't know about them without race involved over here. The reality is that race is still a central problem in the US that has yet to be "stamped out"!
And the fact is that you have no true knowledge of what the US would be without racism. What you've written is speculative at best. Not that tribalism wouldn't occur, it your presenting it as the key to our racial relationships.
Your may be correct. Then again, you may be incorrect...what happens in the interim? It's like you're standing at the end of a long race to hand our water. For too many the water will have come, too late.
You are right and I agree. One comment you made that stuck out is "human relationships are multi-causal" if that is true, permit to ask, why is there a default to "racism" as the causal issue to such unpleasant racial interactions in the US? hardly any other cause is explored.
Correct me if I'm wrong
What you've described has not been my experience in the 78 years since I've been born in Albany, NY. Tribalism is the wrong label based on your description. That would mean that the Nigerian man killed by his white girlfriend was a tribal murder? Black Americans aren't fighting with whites for capitalisms meager spoils. If they are, they've never been winning much and still haven't. You've not put your finger on the depth of the black/white relationships in the US.
Thanks for reading and leaving a comment. I appreciate. There is a possibility that I'll get some details wrong, seeing as I'm not an American and speaking from an outside perspective.
My point really is, groups compete, their interests clash and those tensions are not unique to black vs white Americans and that, even in a racially homogenous society, different tribes would come in conflict with each other.
The experience in my country where everyone is phenotypically black and even in cases where these people are of the same ethnic extraction or tribe, just being of a different clan is enough reason for conflict to arise.
I guess the larger point I was trying to make is that, all the black-and-white tensions in America today may not be solely due to racism and that even if you stamp out racism today in America, many of those tensions would still remain, because humans are tribal in nature and tribes fight each other.
This article is practical and reflects much of my feelings.
In his insightful book "The Righteous Mind" Johnathan Haidt lays out the legitimate differences in degrees of innate values between the political left and political right in our nation. No race or ethnicity applies or need apply. But it all boils down to trust or distrust in each group's political and social intentions.
Values differences matter "big-time" but {IF} the political and economic intentions are more shared than not, different groups live cooperatively and meld together. There is too much success for this in our nation to deny it. I think Charles is saying by casting off the "race" term, we also cast off a past, outdated degree of thought and attitude that once existed.
There is no real "race" difference in the world - only culture and a few genes that reveal ancestral lineage - which means nothing. In time past, we all came from Africa. We just took different routes on our ancestral journey.
Having said that, , there is a political movement in the world and the nation to distort and divide the American people and discredit the American Creed using academia and the main-stream media. It is time to throw off that label and address any cultural, social, economic and political differences society bears in its reality. The truth is hard enough to address. We don't need false and useless ideas like race superiority. What are those truths?