Discussion about this post

User's avatar
J on the block's avatar

Agreed with your premise at its core. In implementation it is a very complex issue. For every tragic video like this, there are many that don't get amplified where a routine traffic stop etc. results in an officer quickly and unexpectedly being shot. I live in a high crime area (a few blocks from "the hood") and the relationship to policing is fraught for me. Doing a ride along with police did change my views - one cannot discern the intent or status of who is pulled over. There was an understandable groundswell of support for "softer" policing methods after the summer of 2020, and many safe control positions used routinely in wrestling and jiu jitsu (eg chest mount) were outlawed. An emphasis placed on tasers etc. I am saddened but I cannot say surprised. Many wanted social workers to intervene also but an unstable or aggressive person will not be reliably kind because the uniform is different. An honest approach to policy (ending eg qualified immunity), and the pros and cons of what force protocols are is needed. All too often unwell people wear uniforms as well and the cultural incentives prevent them from being disciplined.

Expand full comment
William Potter's avatar

The gray area of what an imminent danger to the police or others is where I would push back on your article.

A disoriented person that is on cocaine and marijuana driving a vehicle seems to be a relatively imminent threat to himself and anyone around him and extremely dangerous to society. Just look at death statistics: in first world societies, cars are incredibly dangerous and a leading cause of accidental death.

Just as a thought exercise, if the police pull over a person and discover he or she is acting abnormal/disoriented/intoxicated.

They attempt to arrest the person, but he or she resists to the point of violence, so the officers desist. They allow the person to reenter their vehicle (as physical restraint would be the only way to stop this person which could lead to violence and harm, an unacceptable outcome in your article’s worldview)

The intoxicated person gets in the car and speeds off (despite the officers not immediately pursuing) and two blocks away kills several children playing baseball in the street. The person later tests positive for multiple substances.

What moral obligation did the police have and what legal recourse will the state use against them for allowing a clearly intoxicated person to Drive away? Should they be arrested? Should they be placed on leave with or without pay. Will the news media publicize all the details of this case fairly?

I’m an anesthesiologist and I have practiced in level one trauma centers for all of my career, in my experience these accidents happen all the time. This is not some far fetched impossible scenario. Traffic deaths with impaired drivers happen almost daily.

I have sympathy for your argument, I just don’t know what a police person is supposed to do without physical restraint in these types of encounters.

It seems to me to be an incredibly difficult, high stakes job, with mediocre pay that now is highly politicized and publicized. No wonder officers are quitting in droves or moving to the suburbs where they can avoid these Sophie’s choice type situations (see the recent The Free Press article on substack for a description).

The referenced article argues that this loss of police is bad for low income communities. That topic out of my expertise, but it seems losing good police would not be good for any community.

Expand full comment
7 more comments...

No posts